Comments on: How useful is dialogue?

By: Alejandro

Fri, 23 Oct 2009 17:50:21 +0000

But it’s probably not as futile as it seems. We are not going to magically deconvert the whole world in one generation, but the fact that atheist ideas are being openly promoted is something that has not happened before, outside intellectual circles. That may make an enormous difference in the medium term.

By: efrique

Fri, 16 Oct 2009 10:52:10 +0000

I often feel the same way; but then I read deconversion stories, and it becomes clear that at least some few people are prompted to think carefully by something that was said to them for which they didn’t really have a good answer (though they may have given an answer at the time)… you don’t know what effect you may have in the longer term, nor how long it may take to kick in.

By: Is Debate Between Believers And Non-Believers Inevitably Futile? « Camels With Hammers

Thu, 15 Oct 2009 23:09:12 +0000

[...] Debate Between Believers And Non-Believers Inevitably Futile? It’s The Thought That Counts gets discouraged: I’ve been having these long, philosophical conversations with some of my [...]

By: Xianhang Zhang

Thu, 15 Oct 2009 20:11:06 +0000

I think it’s a bit fatalistic to say that you will never convert someone to atheism through dialogue, it’s rare but it does happen and even if it doesn’t go all the way, it can sometimes act as a nudge.

But dialogue is valuable because it changes people’s minds about many peripheral issues. The religious people I’ve conversed with now believe:

Atheists are capable of having a moral system as deeply genuine as theirs
Atheists are far from certain about their belief and operate from a position of deep doubt
Not all Atheists are hostile towards religion
Atheists arrived at their position from careful thought and not a reflexive fear of God
Some people have had religious transcendent experiences & still remain unbelievers
The evidence for creationism is far weaker than they assumed
If you get two Atheists together, you’ll get 3 opinions on any issue, Atheism is not a single creed

On the other side, I’ve learned:

Many religious people are smart, curious and have a well thought out & internally coherent belief system.
Religion is an experiential phenomena & it’s hard for me to comment if I haven’t experienced God’s touch
Liberal Christians aren’t by any means wishy washy about their faith and they’re as deeply committed as fundamentalist Christians but choose to express their faith in different ways
Religion does drive a compulsion to do good and love thy neighbor which is in excess of what I see in Atheist communities

When I help run dialogue discussions, it’s with the goal of understanding, not conversion.

By: Emily K

Wed, 14 Oct 2009 05:37:49 +0000

“Religious folks still tend to see atheists as evil heathens with no purpose.”

Statistics, plox. Else it’s just the same kind of generalization “religious folks” heap upon atheists (that they are all purpose-lacking.)

…

I rather enjoy these two religious men’s explanation of their faith in God.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b80UXZi7F74

Note: I did not say “I COMPLETELY AGREE WITH EVERYTHING THEY SAY NO QUESTIONS ASKED NO TAG-BACKS” – I just like what they say about their belief in God.

By: Z

Mon, 12 Oct 2009 21:05:32 +0000

I think you’re right that the more the freethinking community actually functions like a community, the more people will be “won over” to that side. There are undoubtedly people who go to church because they like being with other people, they like singing together, they like the potlucks and the coffee hours, and they’re not that big into the whole God thing but they’ll believe whatever they have to about it in order to fit in and have friends.

So maybe I should be focusing my efforts on that. But does that mean I should stop wasting my time even talking to the True Believers about it?

By: Ian

Mon, 12 Oct 2009 20:07:46 +0000

Sometimes I think a lot of the same things. People clearly aren’t being won over by rational arguments most of the time – it’s emotional fallacies that people want. Religious folks still tend to see atheists as evil heathens with no purpose. Only if we provide secular alternatives to church will we substantially grow our numbers. It doesn’t help though that the majority of atheist/skeptic groups are predominantly white-males.