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	<title>Comments on: Who can be my president?</title>
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		<title>By: <img class="identicon" src="http://www.gravatar.com/avatar.php?gravatar_id=f70a488e71be5b0aeff12acd62222006&#38;size=48&#38;default=http://www.thoughtcounts.net/wp-content/plugins/wp-identicon/identicon/0dfaa63992d9819.png" alt="Progressive Conservative Identicon Icon" height="48" width="48" /> Progressive Conservative</title>
		<link>http://www.thoughtcounts.net/2008/10/who-can-be-my-president/comment-page-1/#comment-784</link>
		<dc:creator><img class="identicon" src="http://www.gravatar.com/avatar.php?gravatar_id=f70a488e71be5b0aeff12acd62222006&#38;size=48&#38;default=http://www.thoughtcounts.net/wp-content/plugins/wp-identicon/identicon/0dfaa63992d9819.png" alt="Progressive Conservative Identicon Icon" height="48" width="48" /> Progressive Conservative</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Oct 2008 19:47:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thoughtcounts.net/?p=194#comment-784</guid>
		<description>A,

I&#039;ve lived in &#039;middle America&#039; my whole life, but I&#039;ve also traveled quite a bit, especially on the East Coast. My wife&#039;s family is from New England, I&#039;ve attended week-long conferences in Providence, we vacation in NH, etc. All told I&#039;ve spent probably 30 weeks on the East Coast. Add to that plenty of other time spent in places like Chicago, Seattle, etc. Maybe I&#039;m not an expert on geographic differences in cultural attitudes, but I do feel like I&#039;ve seen some pretty good anecdotal moments. 

Not once in 33 years have I heard someone here make a negative generalization about people living in big cities on the East Coast. But in my travels beyond my state I can name at least 10 instances where I heard negative remarks about small towns, middle America or the South. On my honeymoon I was on a ferry over to Martha&#039;s Vineyard, two days after Bush defeated Kerry, and I heard a woman ask, &quot;How can the rest of the country be so stupid?&quot; When the owner of the inn we stayed at there saw a GOP patch on my backpack she said I was brave for having that around there. People don&#039;t worry about those things where I live. 

So my point is, maybe there is some truth to what Palin says. I think there are very different attitudes towards things like guns, religion, education in places like Boston than there are in places like Louisville or St. Louis or Tulsa. It&#039;s not wrong to point out that Obama has a different set of values than many of us in the middle of this country. Is it populism? Yes. But so is a lot of what Obama says. 

Some scholars today believe that the &#039;working class&#039; is defined more by their education level and their profession than by their actual income. Accepting that premise, then when people like John Edwards talk about &#039;two Americas&#039; he&#039;s actually positioning a lot of non-college graduates against those more educated. So the anti-intellectual label for Palin is a bit hypocritical in that light. 

I also have to reject your notion that Palin&#039;s comments somehow make it more difficult for atheists. I think you&#039;re giving her words waaaaay more power than they deserve.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A,</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve lived in &#8216;middle America&#8217; my whole life, but I&#8217;ve also traveled quite a bit, especially on the East Coast. My wife&#8217;s family is from New England, I&#8217;ve attended week-long conferences in Providence, we vacation in NH, etc. All told I&#8217;ve spent probably 30 weeks on the East Coast. Add to that plenty of other time spent in places like Chicago, Seattle, etc. Maybe I&#8217;m not an expert on geographic differences in cultural attitudes, but I do feel like I&#8217;ve seen some pretty good anecdotal moments. </p>
<p>Not once in 33 years have I heard someone here make a negative generalization about people living in big cities on the East Coast. But in my travels beyond my state I can name at least 10 instances where I heard negative remarks about small towns, middle America or the South. On my honeymoon I was on a ferry over to Martha&#8217;s Vineyard, two days after Bush defeated Kerry, and I heard a woman ask, &#8220;How can the rest of the country be so stupid?&#8221; When the owner of the inn we stayed at there saw a GOP patch on my backpack she said I was brave for having that around there. People don&#8217;t worry about those things where I live. </p>
<p>So my point is, maybe there is some truth to what Palin says. I think there are very different attitudes towards things like guns, religion, education in places like Boston than there are in places like Louisville or St. Louis or Tulsa. It&#8217;s not wrong to point out that Obama has a different set of values than many of us in the middle of this country. Is it populism? Yes. But so is a lot of what Obama says. </p>
<p>Some scholars today believe that the &#8216;working class&#8217; is defined more by their education level and their profession than by their actual income. Accepting that premise, then when people like John Edwards talk about &#8216;two Americas&#8217; he&#8217;s actually positioning a lot of non-college graduates against those more educated. So the anti-intellectual label for Palin is a bit hypocritical in that light. </p>
<p>I also have to reject your notion that Palin&#8217;s comments somehow make it more difficult for atheists. I think you&#8217;re giving her words waaaaay more power than they deserve.</p>
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		<title>By: Daily Constitutional: Thou Shall Not&#8230;. &#171; Home of the Brave</title>
		<link>http://www.thoughtcounts.net/2008/10/who-can-be-my-president/comment-page-1/#comment-762</link>
		<dc:creator>Daily Constitutional: Thou Shall Not&#8230;. &#171; Home of the Brave</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 26 Oct 2008 10:58:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thoughtcounts.net/?p=194#comment-762</guid>
		<description>[...] leads to disenfranchisement, division and distrust. I wish I was making all this up. I wish I could honestly say that we can all get along, but I [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] leads to disenfranchisement, division and distrust. I wish I was making all this up. I wish I could honestly say that we can all get along, but I [...]</p>
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		<title>By: <img class="identicon" src="http://www.gravatar.com/avatar.php?gravatar_id=b7c503dd3dcfbfe6283c10874dbaaa07&#38;size=48&#38;default=http://www.thoughtcounts.net/wp-content/plugins/wp-identicon/identicon/f5161f7ee15d71d.png" alt="A Identicon Icon" height="48" width="48" /> A</title>
		<link>http://www.thoughtcounts.net/2008/10/who-can-be-my-president/comment-page-1/#comment-725</link>
		<dc:creator><img class="identicon" src="http://www.gravatar.com/avatar.php?gravatar_id=b7c503dd3dcfbfe6283c10874dbaaa07&#38;size=48&#38;default=http://www.thoughtcounts.net/wp-content/plugins/wp-identicon/identicon/f5161f7ee15d71d.png" alt="A Identicon Icon" height="48" width="48" /> A</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Oct 2008 16:07:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thoughtcounts.net/?p=194#comment-725</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m with Z on this one, and I had a lot of respect for McCain until very recently.

I don&#039;t think any prominent Democratic politician has ever implied that anyone not voting for Obama is racist.  They&#039;ve implied that some people are, and that some racist attacks have been made (like the dollar bill comment), but that is totally true and  reasonable.

Palin has gone way beyond economic populism.  Economic populism is when you want very progressive taxation and social services, not when you imply everyone from one coast is fundamentally worse.

It&#039;s one thing to attack supporters of your opponent.  These attacks aren&#039;t against liberals or Obama supporters.  They&#039;re against people who live in cities or on the east coast.  No wonder those places end up voting Democratic....

I&#039;m not willing to say everything is just campaign rhetoric.  The fact that Palin makes these statements has real consequences.  It means that atheists are treated differently in their daily lives.  It spreads prejudice and anger that lasts long after the campaign is done.  McCain probably doesn&#039;t believe half of this stuff, but the people listening to him do.

I will definitely &quot;accept the results&quot; of the election, and I will definitely be loyal to the country no matter who is president.  Personal loyalty to a McCain administration, though, is maybe more than I can promise.  A president should be the president all Americans, no matter who voted for them, but McCain and his allies have made it clear that they care a lot less about the views and well-being of certain types of people.  I happen to fall into many of those types, and it&#039;s hard to feel allegiance to someone who excludes you and encourages others to hate you.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m with Z on this one, and I had a lot of respect for McCain until very recently.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t think any prominent Democratic politician has ever implied that anyone not voting for Obama is racist.  They&#8217;ve implied that some people are, and that some racist attacks have been made (like the dollar bill comment), but that is totally true and  reasonable.</p>
<p>Palin has gone way beyond economic populism.  Economic populism is when you want very progressive taxation and social services, not when you imply everyone from one coast is fundamentally worse.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s one thing to attack supporters of your opponent.  These attacks aren&#8217;t against liberals or Obama supporters.  They&#8217;re against people who live in cities or on the east coast.  No wonder those places end up voting Democratic&#8230;.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not willing to say everything is just campaign rhetoric.  The fact that Palin makes these statements has real consequences.  It means that atheists are treated differently in their daily lives.  It spreads prejudice and anger that lasts long after the campaign is done.  McCain probably doesn&#8217;t believe half of this stuff, but the people listening to him do.</p>
<p>I will definitely &#8220;accept the results&#8221; of the election, and I will definitely be loyal to the country no matter who is president.  Personal loyalty to a McCain administration, though, is maybe more than I can promise.  A president should be the president all Americans, no matter who voted for them, but McCain and his allies have made it clear that they care a lot less about the views and well-being of certain types of people.  I happen to fall into many of those types, and it&#8217;s hard to feel allegiance to someone who excludes you and encourages others to hate you.</p>
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		<title>By: <img class="identicon" src="http://www.gravatar.com/avatar.php?gravatar_id=f70a488e71be5b0aeff12acd62222006&#38;size=48&#38;default=http://www.thoughtcounts.net/wp-content/plugins/wp-identicon/identicon/0dfaa63992d9819.png" alt="Progressive Conservative Identicon Icon" height="48" width="48" /> Progressive Conservative</title>
		<link>http://www.thoughtcounts.net/2008/10/who-can-be-my-president/comment-page-1/#comment-715</link>
		<dc:creator><img class="identicon" src="http://www.gravatar.com/avatar.php?gravatar_id=f70a488e71be5b0aeff12acd62222006&#38;size=48&#38;default=http://www.thoughtcounts.net/wp-content/plugins/wp-identicon/identicon/0dfaa63992d9819.png" alt="Progressive Conservative Identicon Icon" height="48" width="48" /> Progressive Conservative</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Oct 2008 11:21:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thoughtcounts.net/?p=194#comment-715</guid>
		<description>One more point I&#039;d like to make...and this is really the most important one: Wilkie specifically pointed out in his speech that the rhetoric and anger of the campaign was just that, campaigning. Anyone who bases their vote or the support of the President on a 6 month campaign verses the sum of their career is being very, very short-sighted. But again, when you want to find an excuse to hate, it&#039;s easy to see all sorts of things.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One more point I&#8217;d like to make&#8230;and this is really the most important one: Wilkie specifically pointed out in his speech that the rhetoric and anger of the campaign was just that, campaigning. Anyone who bases their vote or the support of the President on a 6 month campaign verses the sum of their career is being very, very short-sighted. But again, when you want to find an excuse to hate, it&#8217;s easy to see all sorts of things.</p>
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		<title>By: <img class="identicon" src="http://www.gravatar.com/avatar.php?gravatar_id=f70a488e71be5b0aeff12acd62222006&#38;size=48&#38;default=http://www.thoughtcounts.net/wp-content/plugins/wp-identicon/identicon/0dfaa63992d9819.png" alt="Progressive Conservative Identicon Icon" height="48" width="48" /> Progressive Conservative</title>
		<link>http://www.thoughtcounts.net/2008/10/who-can-be-my-president/comment-page-1/#comment-704</link>
		<dc:creator><img class="identicon" src="http://www.gravatar.com/avatar.php?gravatar_id=f70a488e71be5b0aeff12acd62222006&#38;size=48&#38;default=http://www.thoughtcounts.net/wp-content/plugins/wp-identicon/identicon/0dfaa63992d9819.png" alt="Progressive Conservative Identicon Icon" height="48" width="48" /> Progressive Conservative</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Oct 2008 02:49:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thoughtcounts.net/?p=194#comment-704</guid>
		<description>Every criticsm of Obama since before he clinched the nomination has been characterized as racist. He was happy to encourage this when he told his supporters that McCain would try to point out that he looked different than the men on the dollar bills. John Murtha referred to his own district as racist. Democrats have claimed that it is racist to point out that Obama has past alliances with a domestic terrorist. The media claims it is racist to point out that ACORN is turning in false voter registrations. Obama has been so good at this that he actually managed to convince Democrats that Bill Clinton was racist. 

I am fully expecting to be called a racist for the next 4-8 years because that seems to be the label given to anyone who criticizes this candidate of color. But despite all that I am willing to give him the respect his office deserves. 

Despite your claim to the contrary the media has not only ignored the ridiculousness of these racism claims but have actually helped advance them. But yet you have still managed to find a way to justify hate for the next four year if McCain gets elected. Liberals seem to be very good at that. 

Palin&#039;s rhetoric has been classic populism. You might remember its last incarnation with John Edwards&#039; &#039;two Americas&#039; or even Hillary&#039;s lackluster attempt at populism this year. Historically populism has been favored more by the Left than the Right. I think maybe you&#039;re ignoring that when you critique Palin&#039;s campaign strategy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Every criticsm of Obama since before he clinched the nomination has been characterized as racist. He was happy to encourage this when he told his supporters that McCain would try to point out that he looked different than the men on the dollar bills. John Murtha referred to his own district as racist. Democrats have claimed that it is racist to point out that Obama has past alliances with a domestic terrorist. The media claims it is racist to point out that ACORN is turning in false voter registrations. Obama has been so good at this that he actually managed to convince Democrats that Bill Clinton was racist. </p>
<p>I am fully expecting to be called a racist for the next 4-8 years because that seems to be the label given to anyone who criticizes this candidate of color. But despite all that I am willing to give him the respect his office deserves. </p>
<p>Despite your claim to the contrary the media has not only ignored the ridiculousness of these racism claims but have actually helped advance them. But yet you have still managed to find a way to justify hate for the next four year if McCain gets elected. Liberals seem to be very good at that. </p>
<p>Palin&#8217;s rhetoric has been classic populism. You might remember its last incarnation with John Edwards&#8217; &#8216;two Americas&#8217; or even Hillary&#8217;s lackluster attempt at populism this year. Historically populism has been favored more by the Left than the Right. I think maybe you&#8217;re ignoring that when you critique Palin&#8217;s campaign strategy.</p>
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