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	<title>Comments on: Being bad at math</title>
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	<description>critical analysis and interesting ideas</description>
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		<title><img class='wavatar' src='http://www.gravatar.com/avatar.php?gravatar_id=d29356f27428b82a11635971f6ae7844.jpg&amp;r=G&amp;s=60&amp;d=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.thoughtcounts.net%2Fwp-content%2Fcache%2Fwavatars%2Fd29356f27428b82a1.png' width='60' height='60' alt='Wavatar' />By:  MKR</title>
		<link>http://www.thoughtcounts.net/2008/07/being-bad-at-math/comment-page-1/#comment-9625</link>
		<dc:creator><img class='wavatar' src='http://www.gravatar.com/avatar.php?gravatar_id=d29356f27428b82a11635971f6ae7844.jpg&amp;r=G&amp;s=60&amp;d=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.thoughtcounts.net%2Fwp-content%2Fcache%2Fwavatars%2Fd29356f27428b82a1.png' width='60' height='60' alt='Wavatar' /> MKR</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Dec 2009 19:37:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thoughtcounts.net/?p=40#comment-9625</guid>
		<description>I love math, but am awful at it. I don&#039;t say &quot;I hate math&quot; anymore after finishing college. What little I could coax my brain into understanding has proven invaluable.

I do end up using my excellent language skills more than my awful math skills, but I don&#039;t know how I got by without the latter for so many years.

Wondering &quot;what are the steps to this math problem&quot; has been replaced with translating the  problem into an equation and solving. I still can&#039;t remember how to calculate percentages into and from various forms, but I can have an equation together in seconds that doesn&#039;t care about pre-fab formulas.

It&#039;s also interesting what sort of sites I stumble on to by searching for &quot;bad at math.&quot; :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I love math, but am awful at it. I don&#8217;t say &#8220;I hate math&#8221; anymore after finishing college. What little I could coax my brain into understanding has proven invaluable.</p>
<p>I do end up using my excellent language skills more than my awful math skills, but I don&#8217;t know how I got by without the latter for so many years.</p>
<p>Wondering &#8220;what are the steps to this math problem&#8221; has been replaced with translating the  problem into an equation and solving. I still can&#8217;t remember how to calculate percentages into and from various forms, but I can have an equation together in seconds that doesn&#8217;t care about pre-fab formulas.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s also interesting what sort of sites I stumble on to by searching for &#8220;bad at math.&#8221; <img src='http://www.thoughtcounts.net/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title><img class='wavatar' src='http://www.gravatar.com/avatar.php?gravatar_id=8572ca0c7489aa87b9e3e0092a9a6b87.jpg&amp;r=G&amp;s=60&amp;d=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.thoughtcounts.net%2Fwp-content%2Fcache%2Fwavatars%2F8572ca0c7489aa87b.png' width='60' height='60' alt='Wavatar' />By:  Z</title>
		<link>http://www.thoughtcounts.net/2008/07/being-bad-at-math/comment-page-1/#comment-7672</link>
		<dc:creator><img class='wavatar' src='http://www.gravatar.com/avatar.php?gravatar_id=8572ca0c7489aa87b9e3e0092a9a6b87.jpg&amp;r=G&amp;s=60&amp;d=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.thoughtcounts.net%2Fwp-content%2Fcache%2Fwavatars%2F8572ca0c7489aa87b.png' width='60' height='60' alt='Wavatar' /> Z</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Oct 2009 20:47:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thoughtcounts.net/?p=40#comment-7672</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t think the question was ever merely, &quot;If you had to choose verbal skills or quantitative skills, which would you choose?&quot; If it were that stark a choice, I think most people (minus the extremely introverted) would opt for the ability to express thoughts to others over the ability to perform algebra.

But of course, you don&#039;t only have one or the other. It&#039;s possible to be both verbally and quantitatively skilled. And really, what good is it if you can say a lot of pretty words strung together in a row but are not, as you say, a &quot;logical thinker&quot;? The most effective communication is both rhetorically appealing and analytically rigorous. I&#039;m going to skip the stupid list math teachers give of answers to, &quot;When are we ever going to need to use this?!&quot; You know what is on that list. 

Our posts here on this topic were never arguing, &quot;Forget about literature, study only calculus and topology.&quot; We&#039;ve been arguing that society should appreciate both, and that all kinds of intellectual pursuits should be encouraged. Far too often, students in STEM fields are told they need to study the humanities in order to be &quot;well-rounded,&quot; while humanities students can easily wiggle out of any moderately quantitative course requirements they might sometimes face.

But that&#039;s really the point that was made in the post above, so if you actually read it, I&#039;m not telling you anything new. Was there something in the post that didn&#039;t make sense to you, something you&#039;d like us to explain further?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t think the question was ever merely, &#8220;If you had to choose verbal skills or quantitative skills, which would you choose?&#8221; If it were that stark a choice, I think most people (minus the extremely introverted) would opt for the ability to express thoughts to others over the ability to perform algebra.</p>
<p>But of course, you don&#8217;t only have one or the other. It&#8217;s possible to be both verbally and quantitatively skilled. And really, what good is it if you can say a lot of pretty words strung together in a row but are not, as you say, a &#8220;logical thinker&#8221;? The most effective communication is both rhetorically appealing and analytically rigorous. I&#8217;m going to skip the stupid list math teachers give of answers to, &#8220;When are we ever going to need to use this?!&#8221; You know what is on that list. </p>
<p>Our posts here on this topic were never arguing, &#8220;Forget about literature, study only calculus and topology.&#8221; We&#8217;ve been arguing that society should appreciate both, and that all kinds of intellectual pursuits should be encouraged. Far too often, students in STEM fields are told they need to study the humanities in order to be &#8220;well-rounded,&#8221; while humanities students can easily wiggle out of any moderately quantitative course requirements they might sometimes face.</p>
<p>But that&#8217;s really the point that was made in the post above, so if you actually read it, I&#8217;m not telling you anything new. Was there something in the post that didn&#8217;t make sense to you, something you&#8217;d like us to explain further?</p>
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		<title><img class='wavatar' src='http://www.gravatar.com/avatar.php?gravatar_id=ff06e366b9f514ec530a1c43817fdc5c.jpg&amp;r=G&amp;s=60&amp;d=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.thoughtcounts.net%2Fwp-content%2Fcache%2Fwavatars%2Fff06e366b9f514ec5.png' width='60' height='60' alt='Wavatar' />By:  Rick</title>
		<link>http://www.thoughtcounts.net/2008/07/being-bad-at-math/comment-page-1/#comment-7659</link>
		<dc:creator><img class='wavatar' src='http://www.gravatar.com/avatar.php?gravatar_id=ff06e366b9f514ec530a1c43817fdc5c.jpg&amp;r=G&amp;s=60&amp;d=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.thoughtcounts.net%2Fwp-content%2Fcache%2Fwavatars%2Fff06e366b9f514ec5.png' width='60' height='60' alt='Wavatar' /> Rick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Oct 2009 16:19:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thoughtcounts.net/?p=40#comment-7659</guid>
		<description>My justification for remaining bad at math is that being a good writer and reader pays off every day, while my failure at math (I got As, but didn&#039;t retain much) has yet to really punish me.  Being interested in language and culture has benefited me greatly.  I can talk with interesting friends, learn from and be entertained by books, work on hobbies, get paid to be a librarian, communicate well enough to maintain a romantic relationship.  Spending more time getting better acquainted with mathematics would no-doubt be a boon and make me a more creative, more logical thinker, but given a choice of one or the other, I&#039;d choose verbal skills.  

I came here looking for possible reasons to modify my stance, however, so if I&#039;m missing something...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My justification for remaining bad at math is that being a good writer and reader pays off every day, while my failure at math (I got As, but didn&#8217;t retain much) has yet to really punish me.  Being interested in language and culture has benefited me greatly.  I can talk with interesting friends, learn from and be entertained by books, work on hobbies, get paid to be a librarian, communicate well enough to maintain a romantic relationship.  Spending more time getting better acquainted with mathematics would no-doubt be a boon and make me a more creative, more logical thinker, but given a choice of one or the other, I&#8217;d choose verbal skills.  </p>
<p>I came here looking for possible reasons to modify my stance, however, so if I&#8217;m missing something&#8230;</p>
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		<title><img class='wavatar' src='http://www.gravatar.com/avatar.php?gravatar_id=d41d8cd98f00b204e9800998ecf8427e.jpg&amp;r=G&amp;s=60&amp;d=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.thoughtcounts.net%2Fwp-content%2Fcache%2Fwavatars%2Fd41d8cd98f00b204e.png' width='60' height='60' alt='Wavatar' />By:  It&#8217;s the Thought that Counts &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Are you here for advice?</title>
		<link>http://www.thoughtcounts.net/2008/07/being-bad-at-math/comment-page-1/#comment-1869</link>
		<dc:creator><img class='wavatar' src='http://www.gravatar.com/avatar.php?gravatar_id=d41d8cd98f00b204e9800998ecf8427e.jpg&amp;r=G&amp;s=60&amp;d=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.thoughtcounts.net%2Fwp-content%2Fcache%2Fwavatars%2Fd41d8cd98f00b204e.png' width='60' height='60' alt='Wavatar' /> It&#8217;s the Thought that Counts &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Are you here for advice?</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Jan 2009 14:35:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thoughtcounts.net/?p=40#comment-1869</guid>
		<description>[...] of a few of our old posts on innumeracy and attitudes about it. It seems like people are looking for advice and answers, and [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] of a few of our old posts on innumeracy and attitudes about it. It seems like people are looking for advice and answers, and [...]</p>
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		<title><img class='wavatar' src='http://www.gravatar.com/avatar.php?gravatar_id=23ca65416c4e2b13ab321a5ba0510b18.jpg&amp;r=G&amp;s=60&amp;d=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.thoughtcounts.net%2Fwp-content%2Fcache%2Fwavatars%2F23ca65416c4e2b13a.png' width='60' height='60' alt='Wavatar' />By:  Sam</title>
		<link>http://www.thoughtcounts.net/2008/07/being-bad-at-math/comment-page-1/#comment-852</link>
		<dc:creator><img class='wavatar' src='http://www.gravatar.com/avatar.php?gravatar_id=23ca65416c4e2b13ab321a5ba0510b18.jpg&amp;r=G&amp;s=60&amp;d=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.thoughtcounts.net%2Fwp-content%2Fcache%2Fwavatars%2F23ca65416c4e2b13a.png' width='60' height='60' alt='Wavatar' /> Sam</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Nov 2008 18:19:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thoughtcounts.net/?p=40#comment-852</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m really bad at maths. I don&#039;t really know why. I know how to solve equations. But complicated equations or story problems confuses me so much. And a friend of mine is like a real math-whiz. He always get straight A+&#039;s for maths without even studying for tests and his school math&#039;s curriculum is much harder than mine (his school is one of the top schools and has really high standards). 

So I started thinking &quot;Am I stupid or something?&quot; I&#039;ll be starting college on January. But I&#039;ve like forgotten everything I&#039;ve studied before. And I&#039;m feeling really HOPELESS right now. I don&#039;t really know if I&#039;m really stupid or I just didn&#039;t put much effort in maths. And the thing is I&#039;m really not interested in maths.

I have no problem with writing though. I&#039;d rather write thousands of words of essay rather than doing math problems.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m really bad at maths. I don&#8217;t really know why. I know how to solve equations. But complicated equations or story problems confuses me so much. And a friend of mine is like a real math-whiz. He always get straight A+&#8217;s for maths without even studying for tests and his school math&#8217;s curriculum is much harder than mine (his school is one of the top schools and has really high standards). </p>
<p>So I started thinking &#8220;Am I stupid or something?&#8221; I&#8217;ll be starting college on January. But I&#8217;ve like forgotten everything I&#8217;ve studied before. And I&#8217;m feeling really HOPELESS right now. I don&#8217;t really know if I&#8217;m really stupid or I just didn&#8217;t put much effort in maths. And the thing is I&#8217;m really not interested in maths.</p>
<p>I have no problem with writing though. I&#8217;d rather write thousands of words of essay rather than doing math problems.</p>
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		<title><img class='wavatar' src='http://www.gravatar.com/avatar.php?gravatar_id=d41d8cd98f00b204e9800998ecf8427e.jpg&amp;r=G&amp;s=60&amp;d=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.thoughtcounts.net%2Fwp-content%2Fcache%2Fwavatars%2Fd41d8cd98f00b204e.png' width='60' height='60' alt='Wavatar' />By:  It&#8217;s the Thought that Counts &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Dancing about architecture</title>
		<link>http://www.thoughtcounts.net/2008/07/being-bad-at-math/comment-page-1/#comment-580</link>
		<dc:creator><img class='wavatar' src='http://www.gravatar.com/avatar.php?gravatar_id=d41d8cd98f00b204e9800998ecf8427e.jpg&amp;r=G&amp;s=60&amp;d=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.thoughtcounts.net%2Fwp-content%2Fcache%2Fwavatars%2Fd41d8cd98f00b204e.png' width='60' height='60' alt='Wavatar' /> It&#8217;s the Thought that Counts &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Dancing about architecture</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Oct 2008 03:58:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thoughtcounts.net/?p=40#comment-580</guid>
		<description>[...] Depicting science as something reducible to sound bites and cute animations ultimately harms science literacy rather than helping it. It also encourages people who have dismissed the entire field of mathematics as not worth their time, since it implies you can understand science while being bad at math. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Depicting science as something reducible to sound bites and cute animations ultimately harms science literacy rather than helping it. It also encourages people who have dismissed the entire field of mathematics as not worth their time, since it implies you can understand science while being bad at math. [...]</p>
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		<title><img class='wavatar' src='http://www.gravatar.com/avatar.php?gravatar_id=79e7c8574860d4d1cd21f8d3b1644d75.jpg&amp;r=G&amp;s=60&amp;d=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.thoughtcounts.net%2Fwp-content%2Fcache%2Fwavatars%2F79e7c8574860d4d1c.png' width='60' height='60' alt='Wavatar' />By:  Alan</title>
		<link>http://www.thoughtcounts.net/2008/07/being-bad-at-math/comment-page-1/#comment-208</link>
		<dc:creator><img class='wavatar' src='http://www.gravatar.com/avatar.php?gravatar_id=79e7c8574860d4d1cd21f8d3b1644d75.jpg&amp;r=G&amp;s=60&amp;d=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.thoughtcounts.net%2Fwp-content%2Fcache%2Fwavatars%2F79e7c8574860d4d1c.png' width='60' height='60' alt='Wavatar' /> Alan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Aug 2008 03:06:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thoughtcounts.net/?p=40#comment-208</guid>
		<description>In engineering we seem to take pride in our inability to write, we take one first year english course in second year (sometimes dubbed english for retards). the fact that I knew what a thesis was and could put together an interesting sentence put me waaaay ahead of the pack. Being bad at something and being proud of it could be the new definition of human.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In engineering we seem to take pride in our inability to write, we take one first year english course in second year (sometimes dubbed english for retards). the fact that I knew what a thesis was and could put together an interesting sentence put me waaaay ahead of the pack. Being bad at something and being proud of it could be the new definition of human.</p>
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		<title><img class='wavatar' src='http://www.gravatar.com/avatar.php?gravatar_id=5923be1687aaf7278ad987ebf661952c.jpg&amp;r=G&amp;s=60&amp;d=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.thoughtcounts.net%2Fwp-content%2Fcache%2Fwavatars%2F5923be1687aaf7278.png' width='60' height='60' alt='Wavatar' />By:  Dana Hunter</title>
		<link>http://www.thoughtcounts.net/2008/07/being-bad-at-math/comment-page-1/#comment-76</link>
		<dc:creator><img class='wavatar' src='http://www.gravatar.com/avatar.php?gravatar_id=5923be1687aaf7278ad987ebf661952c.jpg&amp;r=G&amp;s=60&amp;d=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.thoughtcounts.net%2Fwp-content%2Fcache%2Fwavatars%2F5923be1687aaf7278.png' width='60' height='60' alt='Wavatar' /> Dana Hunter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 Aug 2008 00:02:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thoughtcounts.net/?p=40#comment-76</guid>
		<description>Hate to say it, but way too many people are &lt;i&gt;really&lt;/i&gt; proud they&#039;re lousy readers and writers.

I announce I&#039;m a writer, and I get a sizeable subset of folks who puff up, proclaim their inability to focus on a book for more than thirty seconds,boast that English was their worst subject, and their writing sucks in all ways.  As if this is a badge of honor.

It&#039;s not just mathematical ignorance that&#039;s celebrated in this country.  It&#039;s &lt;i&gt;all&lt;/i&gt; ignorance.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hate to say it, but way too many people are <i>really</i> proud they&#8217;re lousy readers and writers.</p>
<p>I announce I&#8217;m a writer, and I get a sizeable subset of folks who puff up, proclaim their inability to focus on a book for more than thirty seconds,boast that English was their worst subject, and their writing sucks in all ways.  As if this is a badge of honor.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s not just mathematical ignorance that&#8217;s celebrated in this country.  It&#8217;s <i>all</i> ignorance.</p>
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		<title><img class='wavatar' src='http://www.gravatar.com/avatar.php?gravatar_id=cf06f303d704fc01909779e7bd283442.jpg&amp;r=G&amp;s=60&amp;d=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.thoughtcounts.net%2Fwp-content%2Fcache%2Fwavatars%2Fcf06f303d704fc019.png' width='60' height='60' alt='Wavatar' />By:  decrepitoldfool</title>
		<link>http://www.thoughtcounts.net/2008/07/being-bad-at-math/comment-page-1/#comment-74</link>
		<dc:creator><img class='wavatar' src='http://www.gravatar.com/avatar.php?gravatar_id=cf06f303d704fc01909779e7bd283442.jpg&amp;r=G&amp;s=60&amp;d=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.thoughtcounts.net%2Fwp-content%2Fcache%2Fwavatars%2Fcf06f303d704fc019.png' width='60' height='60' alt='Wavatar' /> decrepitoldfool</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 03 Aug 2008 03:35:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thoughtcounts.net/?p=40#comment-74</guid>
		<description>My dyslexia was not diagnosed until my &#039;30&#039;s and it severely handicapped my math education.  I learned to read well because words have internal context and can be reconstructed from the rest of the sentence.  Not so with numbers, and no discussion of interesting mathematical logic concepts was allowed until I&#039;d solved forty identical, trivial problems that &lt;em&gt;I could not interpret accurately&lt;/em&gt;.  Though my lack of success was perceived as lack of effort (because I could do math verbally) I was trying my heart out and dying inside.  Eventually, I gave up.

Until adulthood, that is, and I&#039;ve spent years trying to catch up as well as I can.  Many important questions just aren&#039;t approachable without math.  So I think it&#039;s important to identify kids with perceptual handicaps and make sure they don&#039;t fall through the cracks.  Because weakness in math does make me stupid in areas where I should be smart.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My dyslexia was not diagnosed until my &#8217;30&#8217;s and it severely handicapped my math education.  I learned to read well because words have internal context and can be reconstructed from the rest of the sentence.  Not so with numbers, and no discussion of interesting mathematical logic concepts was allowed until I&#8217;d solved forty identical, trivial problems that <em>I could not interpret accurately</em>.  Though my lack of success was perceived as lack of effort (because I could do math verbally) I was trying my heart out and dying inside.  Eventually, I gave up.</p>
<p>Until adulthood, that is, and I&#8217;ve spent years trying to catch up as well as I can.  Many important questions just aren&#8217;t approachable without math.  So I think it&#8217;s important to identify kids with perceptual handicaps and make sure they don&#8217;t fall through the cracks.  Because weakness in math does make me stupid in areas where I should be smart.</p>
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		<title><img class='wavatar' src='http://www.gravatar.com/avatar.php?gravatar_id=d41d8cd98f00b204e9800998ecf8427e.jpg&amp;r=G&amp;s=60&amp;d=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.thoughtcounts.net%2Fwp-content%2Fcache%2Fwavatars%2Fd41d8cd98f00b204e.png' width='60' height='60' alt='Wavatar' />By:  It&#8217;s the Thought that Counts &#187; Blog Archive &#187; More on innumeracy</title>
		<link>http://www.thoughtcounts.net/2008/07/being-bad-at-math/comment-page-1/#comment-73</link>
		<dc:creator><img class='wavatar' src='http://www.gravatar.com/avatar.php?gravatar_id=d41d8cd98f00b204e9800998ecf8427e.jpg&amp;r=G&amp;s=60&amp;d=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.thoughtcounts.net%2Fwp-content%2Fcache%2Fwavatars%2Fd41d8cd98f00b204e.png' width='60' height='60' alt='Wavatar' /> It&#8217;s the Thought that Counts &#187; Blog Archive &#187; More on innumeracy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 02 Aug 2008 19:39:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thoughtcounts.net/?p=40#comment-73</guid>
		<description>[...] all the comments on my post about people who readily admit to being bad at math, as well as the discussion occurring on various other blogs, I figured it was time to respond to [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] all the comments on my post about people who readily admit to being bad at math, as well as the discussion occurring on various other blogs, I figured it was time to respond to [...]</p>
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